On the second day of COP29 in Baku (November 12), NE Global interviewed Chairman of the Environment Committee of the Italian Chamber of Deputies, Mauro Rotelli (FDI – Brothers of Italy). Rotelli highlighted various issues such as the relationship between Italy and Africa, views on the return of President Donald Trump, biofuels, and the attitude of Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni regarding the environment.
NE Global: What outcomes could emerge at this COP29?
Mauro Rotelli: It’s an interesting COP, but it also seems a bit like a transitional COP. In the end, the question of questions, which is “Who pays?” is a key element. There are not only important challenging targets but there is also the need to understand how the various communicating vessels that affect developed, developing, and fourth-world countries can be balanced. The results that are being achieved, for example, the reduction of CO2 emissions that are particularly important in our country: last week there was Ecomondo (November 4-7), the most important circular economy trade show in Rimini, during which in the introductory report the platform on the national green economy set that in 2023 we beat CO2 emissions by 6 percent as a country system; going forward at this level the results that seem impossible to achieve are results that can be within reach – it is clear that this cannot decertify the national labour and economic aspect, the big challenge is just that: you set yourself extraordinarily important goals, but then you also have to account for the national labor economic aspect, which is not of secondary importance, otherwise then the transition is not understood by anybody, and instead you have to try to make sure that it can be shared as a path. We know that Italy, through its delegates, has a number of roles that the other COPs have not been there, so we follow what will be the development of the COP itself.
NEG: European fears about the return of Donald Trump?
MR: I think after the U.S. elections we have been used to, first in the study and criticism compared to the campaign, to the achievement of the results…every time there was something we were told quite different from what happened. I think that this administration going into full force in January next year should be commented on by what it will do with only a few days to go before the vote. I don’t know if there is fear, but certainly curiosity, also because what we see is not so simple, we know that close to Trump is one of the world’s largest electric car entrepreneurs, consequently there will be a whole series of issues that will be unveiled as early as the formation of the team, which we don’t know yet.
NEG: Africa is asking for a lot. In your opinion are we ready to provide or not yet?
MR: From this point of view, we managed to present ourselves with a well-defined plan: the Mattei plan, which has triggered a very important participation (of the Italian companies and all the state-owned companies) in the African continent. If I had to tell you at this moment who it is that wants to invest so much in the continent, we have a very interesting platform that has been studied by other nations. Of course, it is that we must be sure where this funding is going because not all nations’ budgets are as transparent as Europe’s, or ours. Our budget law has characteristics, we cannot expect to have the same characteristics of transparency and certainty. At a time like this, to avoid funding purchases of weapons in some state that you want to help and to fund only from a developmental point of view would be the ultimate. There is a need to monitor well, some states are willing, and others are a bit reluctant.
NEG: What role can biofuels still play in this context?
MR: After Dubai we are in Azerbaijan, which is the second country with massive oil and natural gas exports of which we are major customers, I think around 13 – 14 billion Euros a year. We are now in the second country that hosts a COP which bases its economy almost exclusively on the export of fossil fuels. I give a small example: we are getting out of coal in an absolutely convincing way, there is a phase out at the national level. There are plants in Italy that were going to coal, Civitavecchia shortly, in 2025 will see phase out (it is not known if 90 percent or total, but the intention is to close the plant). The next step for the hundreds of people working in direct and indirect manners at that facility, what is it? The beautiful and low-impact off- and on-shore wind, or another kind of pathway involving renewables and beyond?
Reality brings you up against several needs that maybe from a practical point of view you design, but then in reality they do not go to fruition. There is a pathway for us to finally distance ourselves and move away from fossil fuels, but at this stage, we are still dependent, and we as a system in Italy are now producing 40 per cent of our electricity from renewables. If we asked the entire world in here to turn everything off tomorrow, it would be difficult, it would take an accompaniment. Perhaps, the fact that we chose these two states can also help, because they are economies that need to realize the need to change, to make an energy mix, not just gas and oil.
NEG: Being from the same party as the Council President, what is Giorgia Meloni like in dealing with the environment?
MR: Environmentalism and environmental advocacy are in the DNA of the Italian right for a whole range of reasons. I think that Giorgia Meloni’s approach will be very pragmatic, zero ideological, trying on the one hand to bring forward the achievement of the goals, with mitigation (i.e. lowering CO2 emissions), and on the other hand doing adaptation to climate change: defending and structuring to avoid floods, to make sure that drought is no longer a problem in some parts of Italy. There is always a need to find resources from this point of view. We already have a program for abroad which is the Mattei plan, we also need to be very concrete at the national level. That is not the only reason why a national drought commissioner has been appointed, Nicola Dell’Acqua. A whole series of structures are working for an infrastructure that is water, for example, a very important element that has put the government at the center (to respond to how Meloni’s activity is), which we had not had at the center of the agenda for decades because we have most likely always had an abundance of this resource, which instead we have seen is not so obvious (for agriculture, civil uses, industrial uses, tourism…). The approach held to address drought-flood related issues, will be the same in general to get to certain goals. It is important for Italy, in reaching these goals, to maintain technological neutrality: tell us what they are but not necessarily how we should reach them, and let the Italian system find the way to reach them. If a person professes or declares himself a patriot, he cannot think of throwing away raw materials knowing that the material we recycle becomes the actual raw material.
NEG: What have we learned from the Valencia tragedy?
MR: The Valencia tragedy taught us that the 2024 European Green Capital City was simply overwhelmed by this natural disaster. So, the fight has to be global against these changes, it is not enough to be the greenest municipality in Europe if you do not have a system to help you. Warming water temperatures are a hazardous phenomenon that need to be watched, particularly in the Mediterranean. The list of priorities can only be made by the territorial authorities that have to work with the government to say what the emergencies are and have to spend in the shortest time possible, as effectively as possible, the resources (few or many) that are available.
